“In the popular marketplace aspect of the feast a substantial place was held by games (cards and sports, as well as by various forms of fortune-telling, wishes, and predictions).” – Bahktin Rabelais and His World
Hi all! For my appetizer, I would like to discuss video games. Since I cannot see any of my friends, I have been playing some online video games as a way to keep in touch. I have been thinking about the elements of the Carnivalesque in playing video games. Coming together to play games has often been celebratory for me, and there is always billingsgate involved. If you ever play video games with people you may agree, but I think many people “trash talk” when they play with friends as an essential part of the experience, but it is still perfectly fun to lose to a friend at game even if frustrating.
With this in mind, I thought this could be an interesting topic. I will also point out that many games are often violent, but the violence has no meaningful consequences to it. Since we often talk about violence and the Carnivalesque, I thought this may give an interesting point of view.
Below I included some clips. I had a hard time finding normal clips of people playing, so I just included game play. The first is from Smash Bros, which I feel is the perfect game to gather friends around. The next is Krunker which is what I have been playing with my friends. The last is Mortal Kombat which is more violent and realistic than the other two, and extremely gruesome. If you haven’t played the games before, watch some of each of the videos.
Some questions to keep in mind:
What aspects of the Carnivalesque are in the games themselves? In the atmosphere that can surround them?
How do video games differ from other examples of the Carnivalesque like festivals and sporting events?
Does fake violence take away from the Carnivalesque in the way that real violence does? Why or why not?
Smash bros: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk29nGBDbuA
Krunker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWRDVqtJNs
Mortal Kombat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbW-fYOyFc0
If you are interested in more of what Bahktin has to say about games, look at Rabelais and His World pages 231-44 (full text https://haverford.app.box.com/s/yv68pwj7s5wt3hruaybsg3girqr1x1qd If this link doesn’t work it is in the website under resources).
I think this is definitely an interesting topic. When we typically think of the carnivalesque we think of large crowds of people, physically together. However, due to circumstances such as the current one, this cannot always be the case. Therefore, people resort to online interaction as a substitute. One of these substitutes comes in the form of video games, which I believe checks some of the boxes of the carnivalesque excluding the physical interaction. The banter, the laughter, the interaction in a sort of utopian world where everyone has an equal opportunity to win among other things cause video games be a carnivalesque experience. I would say videogames differ from festivals and sporting events because they lack large crowds of people watching (even though recently videogames have become a sort of sport and people watch in large numbers). The one thing that comes with this is the excessive drinking and I am not familiar with the drinking culture surrounding these relatively new gaming tournaments.
There are lots of carnivalesque things in video games, and the more I think about it the more there are (but the extent to which they are legitimate varies I think.) Excessive (and very fast) eating in games to restore health, extremely overweight characters (be that a boss battle, head honcho who gives a task, etc.), a weird relationship between life and death that is often careless, as you the need to live life as it is happening now (in video games you respawn, in real life you drink and eat without thinking about how you’ll feel the next day.) There is also an abundance: trees regrow fruits very quickly, animals respawn, important quest items/quest givers that you accidentally destroy/kill may reappear, you can sometimes buy out a shop, walk out, and return moments later to purchase it all again, you can farm bad guys for whatever XP/items they give you and it all comes back again!
I spent way too many hours this year playing Smash, so I’m excited about this Appetizer! I think video games are a great example of the Carnivalesque, especially because of billingsgate. These games are the perfect opportunity to both make fun of and encourage your friends/opponents at the same time, and I think that the inconsequential violence makes it more Carnivalesque, because to me it sort of removes the conflict between violence and the Carnivalesque that some of us have found troubling in other scenarios. I’m also thinking about how individual video game characters embody the Carnivalesque/Grotesque. Like, hear me out on this: I think the reason why Wario and Waluigi are so popular is because they’re the Carnivalesque/Grotesque versions of Mario and Luigi. I mean, just think about the raw power you feel when you’re playing a game as Wario instead of Mario. People go absolutely wild for Wario and Waluigi in a way that they don’t for other characters, and I think it has to do with their more exaggerated bodies (Wario being short and fat, Waluigi being tall and very thin), their association with the lower bodily stratum (one of Wario’s moves in Smash is farting I think?), and their general chaotic energy.
I really like this idea about Wario and Waluigi being the Carnivalesque/Grotesque versions of Mario and Luigi. Especially since Mario is already rather short and fat and Luigi tall and thin, but Wario and Waluigi take it to a whole new level.
I was also wondering about what you said about inconsequential violence and the Carnivalesque. I agree that it creates a more Carnivalesque atmosphere a lot of times, but if a game is hyper-realistic is this still true? I’d love to hear peoples thoughts but figured I’d put that question here since its not really my main one.
Some video games nowadays are incredibly realistic in their violence; I think of games where they use motion tracking to put actors into a game (recognizable faces of real people!) and when something happens to them it definitely could feel more real. Also games like Mortal Kombat (mostly the newer ones) in the finishing moves have graphic/clear/well animated violence that (even if it is to a character who doesn’t look human) you would not want kids seeing. Alternatively, seeing someone get killed with a pickaxe in Fortnite can be funny and ridiculous because of the bright colors/not in depth graphics/lack of blood.
To me it feels more carnivalesque when you can’t really see the violence in the same way, and it’s more ridiculous than graphic.
Yes, I totally agree! I tend to think of video games as having inconsequential violence, but I hadn’t really thought about this in terms of games with hyper-realistic violence (since these are games that I tend to steer clear of). For me, I agree that the Carnivalesque atmosphere of a game depends on how realistic vs ridiculous the violence is. But I’m wondering about whether this is true for the people who enjoy games with realistic violence. Obviously there are people who play these games for fun– are realistic violent games Carnivalesque for the people who enjoy them? Or does the violence still take away from the rest of the Carnivalesque experience of the game? If anyone here plays these games, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what role the violence has in your enjoyment of the game, if any.
Hi everyone!
I’ve really been enjoying the posts so far and appreciate that you are all clearly thinking about everything. Both Sophia and Liam pointed out different ways that video games create Carnivalesque atmospheres through things like Billingsgate and laughter. Hannah gave some elements in games that are Carnivalesque/Grotesque such as overeating, abundance, and some weird relationship between death and rebirth. And Sophia talked about the specific characters of Wario and Waluigi and how they embody the Carnivalesque and Grotesque.
I think Liam brought up an interesting point about the numbers of people and how that interacts with the Carnivalesque. When deciding to talk about video games, I was definitely focusing on the atmosphere of gathering around a tv or a relatively small amount of people getting on computers rather than huge events. Something we have discussed a few times in class is can smaller groups still be fully Carnivalesque. I think we agreed one person can’t really create a Carnivalesque atmosphere, but I want to discuss how a relatively small group can. Specifically:
How important is the size of the group in creating a Carnivalesque atmosphere?
If the size is important, who/ what kinds of people is that more likely to exclude from the Carnivalesque?
I was just thinking about how I feel more comfortable in the small groups and for me that may be more Carnivalesque than a wild party, but I’m not sure if thats really the same thing or if small groups are an inherently different thing.
I definitely think that the size of the group matters a lot in creating a Carnivalesque atmosphere. When I was younger (7ish?), I played a lot of the Lego games (Star Wars/Indiana Jones/Batman) with my younger sisters since that was a game that they could actually play pretty well. Since it was just the small group of us, we laughed, ran around destroying things (especially in the lobby room of the Cantina in Star Wars, where you could just lightsaber everything and everyone) and had a highly chaotic and carnivalesque atmosphere. If we had any friends over, however, and it was a less exclusive group, the atmosphere changed and became more about completing the missions without as much “fun.” Of course, other games such as Smash create a carnivalesque atmosphere even if there are 20 people in the room, as people can feed off of everyone else’s energy.
This is a very long example but ultimately what I’m trying to say is that depending on what kinds of people are in the group, a small one can be highly carnivalesque!
You bring up an interesting point. I think you can definitely have a carnivalesque atmosphere when having a small(ish) group. I think some people may be more comfortable in smaller groups, which helps them to come out of their shell a little bit, and maybe be more “carnivalesque.” This isn’t always the case, but in a large group where everyone may not be familiar with each-other, people might be more likely to behave and adhere to social norms.
Hannah, going off of your comment about a couple people playing but the whole room feeding off their energy: I think about Fortnite. There may be only one person playing, but everyone is involved, rooting for that one person. Im sure many of you have been part of this even if it wasn’t fortnite, or at least you have seen people on instagram winning and everyone going crazy, but it seems like a very carnivalesque atmosphere.
I definitely think that a Carnivalesque atmosphere can be supported in a smaller group. For me, as Nico mentioned as well, I’m more comfortable in smaller groups, so I think that for some people a Carnivalesque feeling is even easier to achieve in a small group. I think that one of the reasons why the Carnivalesque is usually occurring in larger groups is because of the activities usually associated with the Carnivalesque, such as drinking, eating large meals, dancing, etc. Because these activities are usually the go-to examples of the Carnivalesque, and these activities are usually in large party atmospheres, it seems like the Carnivalesque can only exist in that kind of group. People who are shy or uncomfortable in party atmospheres could definitely feel excluded when the Carnivalesque is only in large groups.
This is a really long-winded way of saying I think that video games provide a really interesting counter to these traditional Carnivalesque activities in that they have the ability to create a Carnivalesque environment with smaller groups, whereas most Carnivalesque activities can’t and therefore seem more exclusive.
When thinking about this idea of small groups, I started thinking about whether or not the carnivalesque could exist online. Can all these aspects of video games that are carnivalesque also be performed virtually? Do you have to be in the same room as the people you are playing with for the experience to be carnivalesque? I would say the experience is definitely enhanced if you are playing split screen with someone, but does the lack of the physical presence take away everything carnivalesque?
Hi all,
Sorry for the delay but I forgot about this post. Overall, I feel really good about our conversations. I was glad we got to discuss the topic from a few different angles, both here and in class.
After the initial discussion about the Carnivalesque and video games, we moved on mostly to violence in video games and how that impacts the Carnivalesque. I was glad we discussed this as violence and how it interacts with the Carnivalesque has been a talking point throughout the class. We all agreed that the cartoonish violence in games like Smash doesn’t take anything away and can in fact add to the Carnivalesque. However we didn’t really come to a consensus about more realistic violence in games. I think generally it just depends on the person. Just like some people my not find the Carnivalesque in Smash, others don’t find it in violent games.
I know we talked about more things all of which were great, but I think this was the main thing for me. I really enjoyed these conversations and hope everyone else did as well.